PE 400 T

[regalexander]

Hi all.
Thought I would get this forum going and post up my plans for my dads 40 year old PE400 T and seek any advice from you experts.
Dad has owned since new(all but) and used the bike as his daily commuter in the early days and then primarily for trail riding.
Apart from giving the bike a birthday a couple of years back - new filter, stripped carb, new musket exhaust manifold, side covers - the bike has sat for the best part of the last 20 plus years.
Following this freshen up, the bike would still not kick start. It took kilometres of crash starting down a hill for it to finally fire up. Even when warm it refuses to kick over. It seems to run strong when it does run though. So much torque! The bike is on its first over size piston and original bottom end. The other main problem is that the clutch won’t disengage. Plates must be rusted together following sitting for so long. (It has fresh gearbox oil)

So my initial plan is to sort the clutch and sort out the starting issue. New plates ain’t a major, but I’m worried what’s making it hard to start could be.
What do you enthusiasts think ? I was thinking of starting out with a compression test and then checking the stator as thinking it could be a weak spark?

If compression is low (what should it have?) I guess my only option is to go with a new wiseco top end kit? Seen on eBay. as well as likely doing the entire bottom end too. if possible to find parts?

Is the original con rod likely to require replacement? i hear the seadoo rod is the only option nowadays if so?

The original rear shocks will need to be replaced too!

Bike will likely be used at vmx events - I even thought of getting it road worthy again!? Will see how I go.

Will post updates as I go.
Look forward to any feedback and recommendations

Cheers
Alex, NZ

[Admin]

The static electrical checks are easy and values should be in your manual. If they are nearer to the end of the range than the center, that part may be bad. May be.
You can do them after simply removing the gas tank and maybe the seat, it's easy.
Also!
Start by cleaning the coil where it's mounted to the bike, remove all rust. And any other grounds associated with the main harness/CDI. You know.
Poor grounds could be interfering with your spark. Rust never sleeps...
Remove the ignition cover and check the internals for cleanliness and a fine rust on surfaces that could be causing problems with spark.
You are in Arizona so your bike is probably less exposed to moisture than most or am I making assumptions...

And if your clutch plates are frozen, couldn't that be causing hard starting? The drag? I would not run the bike until that's resolved, if it was me.

It's dangerous making suggestions about a bike you can't see, so it's best to address the obvious problems (clutch#1) before starting to
suggest cleaning the carb, checking for air leaks, etc. or even playing with the grounds as I suggested... Do the easy stuff first.

Keep records. It is simple and vital to good maintenance.
There are so many simple things that can cause problems, cleaning and inspection should be first, mice build nests in exhausts, rust never sleeps,
and on and on.
Good luck, it sounds like it will be running soon, If it starts, that's most of the battle...

[regalexander]

Great, thank you for your input.
Will definitely start with the basics

I’m in NZ - New Zealand!

[Chuck78]

Good to hear of your bike's resurrection, Alex, & WELCOME to our new Suzuki PE forum!

Have you replaced the spark plug?

I would ensure that the carb's pilot circuit and pilot jet are very clean & clear if you have not completely & thoroughly gone through that yet.

You've been given some good advice here so far, & I agree that I would pursue the stuck clutch issue immediately as well as the other 2 areas that I mentioned. Then next, ignition & electrical checks & cleaning the grounds.
I had a Motoplat ignition on a 74 Rickman-Montesa that I had to replace this year because it would be such a difficult time to start it, but once running, it ran very strong as long as I kept the revs up. It suffered from a weak spark at low RPM,which would get worse once the engine was warmed up.

Thanks for sharing your project with us, that's great to hear of a 1 owner bike being passed down through the family & refreshed!

[regalexander]

Thank you.

Yes new plug, filter, stripped and cleaned carb already.
Its always been a hard starter. Fingers crossed its something simple.

What are the best clutch plates to replace the originals with ? Will it likely need the steel inner plates too ?

Cheers

[Chuck78]

The clutch plates & steels are still available OEM, as they are used on hundreds of models even up to current bikes. Therefore you likely will have A LOT of aftermarket options if you look into deeper cross referencing.

I generally only run EBC or OEM, but I have no real claims that there are not any better offerings out there.
I'd bet EBC friction discs are cheaper than OEM slightly.

[regalexander]

Have pulled the clutch apart. Plates were well and truly stuck together. Had to get a screw driver down between to separate.
Everything measures up within tolerance except the springs so will order those at the very least. Would you recommend changing all the plates while I’m there? Definitely worn, but still within tolerance.

The plastic fuel tank has faded to more of an orange than yellow. Are there any tricks to bringing this back to life?

[ESR80PE]

Bad crank seals can cause hard starting. Check your primary/pulsar coil resistances too. Its fairly common for those to go bad. They can be rewound though.

If its brown/orange you wont get it looking amazing. That is staining and its usually quite deep if not all the way through the thickness of the tanks
There are good aluminium repros on ebay now.

Barnett, EBC, Pro-X an Vesrah plates are good. Just avoid the cheap chinese/Taiwan made plates. They are not very good and not up to hard use. Used some once and they lasted only a couple of hours in a race before they were cooked. Replaced with Vesrah and they were good as gold. The ones i used were Australian MCS brand which is similar big wholesale company like Parts Unlimited in USA, where they just stick their brand name on cheap asian made parts.

[Admin]

Dec 30, 2019 20:13:36 GMT regalexander said:

Have pulled the clutch apart. Plates were well and truly stuck together. Had to get a screw driver down between to separate.
Everything measures up within tolerance except the springs so will order those at the very least. Would you recommend changing all the plates while I’m there? Definitely worn, but still within tolerance.

You probably should have just let the plates soak overnight in type A transmission fluid, or maybe kerosene to free them.
If it was me and my funds were unlimited I would replace them but since it's really such an easy task and there is no reason to
replace good parts, I would reuse them and save money for other needs ;-)
I think this might even help your hard starting somewhat.

Have you decided what oil you will use in the transmission?
I have used Rotella 10/40 and changed it more frequently, some swear by Type "A" (Ford) transmission oil,
but on my last change I grabbed some Motul semi-synthetic by mistake and it seemed to shift/release better but
it's only my first impression.

[regalexander]

Right I Ran some checks on the coil and magneto
Readings vs those stated in the owners manual as follows:

Coil
Primary winding - 1.3 ohms, several ohms
Secondary winding - 12 kilohhms, ten and some kilohms

Magneto
low speed coil - 230 ohms, several hundred ohms
high speed coil - 40 ohms, several ten ohms

What do you all think ?
That primary number looks low - love it how Suzuki leave it up to interpretation with 'several' values. Surely they could have put in a range of values ??

Does the low speed coil have anything to do with spark ? 230 could be classed as less than several.

Cheers, Alex

[ESR80PE]

Yes low speed and high speed coils are for ignition

[regalexander]

Hi folks,

Quick update. Replaced the clutch plates (incl. steel plates) and springs with EBC from Motoduro. The clutch is WAY heavier at the lever now!? The EBC springs are heavy duty but hopefully lightens up after use.
After being convinced that the reason for very hard starting was the low speed coil following the readings above, I found in the owners manual actual ranges of resistance values for all the coils and mine all test up fine according to these!

Back to the drawing board i suppose. I will have another go crash starting and see if the new clutch makes a difference to starting when warm.

Cheers

[Admin]

Apr 27, 2020 7:41:34 GMT regalexander said:

Hi folks,

The clutch is WAY heavier at the lever now!? The EBC springs are heavy duty but hopefully lightens up after use.
-
You can try putting some kind of strap around the clutch lever overnight with tension, that might help break in a bit. I use one of those velcro straps.
I started using that method when I found the motorcycles I rarely used had the clutch plates mostly frozen on startup after long periods of sitting when first starting them again usually after months of no use.
Now, the night before I will ride them, I put the velcro wrap around the lever, it takes the tension off the plates and lets the oil into the spaces and no more problems with sticky plates on starting up and it hasn't created any problems.
The 400 is likely the only PE that might warrant stiffer springs, I don't think it is necessary otherwise ;-)

[willy 1970]

hello alex,i had a pe 400.on starting,turn on fuel then choke just quick 20mm turn of throttle then release straight away try kicking twice,mine usually started it didnt like to much throttle at all,i ran it on putoline synthetic at 50 -1 ,check cylinder head nuts for correct torque,you probably know about all that anyway,ive got an nos 0.25 genuine piston for sale and a un-worn con rod going aswell,i live in the uk though,eug.