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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 18, 2019 3:31:23 GMT
This has been discussed on the old Yahoo Group before, but I wanted to reach out again and inquire to see what successful and/or popular LED lighting upgrades that people have done to their PE's.
There are both retrofit bulb approach, and replacing the entire reflector/lens assembly approach. I prefer to keep it looking fairly vintage, so a fancy modern looking LED headlight with multiple LED's all over the place, or projector beams etc would look a bit out of place, but if very practical/bright/efficient, would still be considered.
The PE175 I'm looking to buy is missing all of the original lighting, and other things, as it was left for dead and stripped as a parts bike. The current owner got the engine running surprisingly strong, tracked down most of a full floater shock for it, and then I have been tracking down a seat and airbox.
Anyway, I could go with a used stock ebay 82-84 headlight/number plate assembly, or I could go aftermarket UFO/Preston Petty/etc, and get a whole new bucket/reflector assembly. I'm up in the air on that. The Preston Petty stuff looks real nice in my opinion.
As far as electronics, it seems that there are very limited AC options for retrofit bulbs, and a much larger market of availability for DC LED bulbs - hence a lot of people generally just throw on a small little AC>DC rectifier unit. Links to any recommended rectifiers would be appreciated, or names/photos.
As far as retrofit bulbs, I'm sure there are a million Chinese LED retrofit bulb varieties available on ebay, Amazon, and other sites. I have previously really liked dealing with real companies - ADV Monster, and Cyclops Adventure Sports, for LED retrofit bulbs.
What diameter are all of the PE headlights? Are there multiple diameters? Are the '77 PE250B's an oddball size lens assembly vs the later bikes?
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 18, 2019 3:45:46 GMT
For the PE175 that I may buy which is missing it's lighting, I was looking at this NOS ebay item made by HP in Belgium: Or UFO Makes these nice headlight assemblies, and as of viewing this photo of them, it looks to take a replaceable bulb - perfect for an ADVMonster or Cyclops 9000 series or H7, H9,H11, H13 type retrofit bulb. They look almost as if they also may contain a daytime running light bulb in the lower portion as well?
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 18, 2019 3:55:20 GMT
And then the classic Preston Petty setup,  They sell headlights for these, but they are definitely advertised as a sealed beam. No-go for me, as I want to maximize my lighting output to make night riding very clear and feasible when necessary... Aha...!!! Searching just a little further showed me that Preston Petty does OPTIONALLY offer theirs with a 12V 35W LED sealed assembly!
Preston Petty Headlight Number Plate Assembly with new LED bulb.
Assembly comes with 12v 35w LED bulb,custom voltage regulator/rectifier, custom wires harness with bullet connectors for easy installation, clear protective lens, zip ties,Preston Petty decal and wiring/mounting instructions.
Our testing on vintage bikes with a 6v system proved perfect results and much added lighting!
Photo shows HLNP’s both hooked to the same 12v battery. HLNP on left using 12v 60w sealed beam. HLNP on right using our 12v 35w LED sealed beam!!
Features:
*12v 35w
*1200 lumens brightness ********
*Works GREAT on bikes with 6v systems
*Life time 30,000 hours
*Waterproof
*Flood beam angle 30 degrees
$170 for only 1200 lumens is the only drawback, a bit pricey! I might actually prefer one of the other two from a visual/aesthetic standpoint over the PE175's and the Preston Petty, but this is a very attractive package as a whole... I'm sure buying a drop-in retrofit bulb for an existing reflector assembly, and an aftermarket small rectifier, would likely be a much cheaper option than this, but this is a very nice package deal here. Many of the Cyclops and ADVMonster bulbs are extremely high powered (and significantly higher wattage drawn) at 4800 lumens, 6000 lumens, even 7000 lumens... NOW WE'RE TALKIN'!
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 18, 2019 5:23:36 GMT
Any other commentary on good replacement drop-in bulbs, rectifier or regulator/rectifier assemblies, or complete LED reflector assemblies or H4 etc type of reflector assemblies (to fit LED drop-in bulbs) that will fit the correct diameters that we would need? stores.advmonster.com/headlight-replacement/www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/The new Cyclops website layout seems a lot less custom-user-friendly than before, now they have different types of bulbs split up between dual sport, cruiser, ATV, dirtbike, etc... I found the most retrofit bulbs of interest in the ATV category: www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/ATV--UTV-LED-Headlight-Bulbs_c_137.htmlAs I mentioned, some of these LED retrofit bulb replacements are 4800, 6000, and even 7000 lumens! But they draw between 35W and 50W power, so a lighting coil rewind or else a PowerDynamo/Vape ignition system upgrade may be in order... The ones we'd generally be looking at are the 9000 series or H7, H9,H11, H13 type retrofit bulbs |
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Post by drumnagorrach on Nov 19, 2019 20:26:12 GMT
It's become glaringly ( well quit the opposite really )obvious that riding my 82 175 Z in the dark is bloody dangerous . At 57 deg north there is a lot of dark this time of year ,so LED lights are interesting .
The main problem is when the revs are low the headlight is useless, at the moment I have the LED cycle lamp on the front ,great light but only lasts an hour before it needs re charging .
Can any electronic Genius out there suggest a way of powering the bike LED off the PE AC generator , mine is a UK model with two lighting coils .
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Admin
Full Member
Posts: 146
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Post by Admin on Nov 20, 2019 20:09:58 GMT
I'm going to leave this here for your entertainment. It was from another group discussing adding a regulator to a husky, I suppose because of the lights blowing out, but Vance includes some information that might be usefull in the discussion. If you read carefully, I think the unspoken solution is you need to add a battery to improve your lighting! - Gary,
I repeat... no voltage regulator required!
I have yet to see a Motoplat that would put out enough
current to blow bulbs. Vibration is probably the cause
of an open filiment. This can be totally avoided by
buying the new LED bulbs. Yes 12volt. Not that it
matters because they only require 2.7volts.
A voltage regulator is
extra wiring and can only be used with one of the
output voltages anyways and you have three. One for
the head light one for the stop tail light and one for
the tail running light. If it were meant to have a
voltage regulator it would only have one lighting wire
coming from the stator. Your's has three wires.
You would be much better off investing your time and
money in purchasing and installing a 12V 12W Halogen
headlight lamp for a brighter light and a 1157 LED
repalcement for the rear. The lack of RPM's limit the
brightness any magneto can generate at an idle this is
why a street bike has a battery.
The persistence of the filament allows for AC from the
stator to be used as DC in a lamp.
Voltage and current are inversely proportional. As the
voltage goes up the current goes down. Lamps are
current dependent. A Motoplat can only produce so much
current limited by magnetic flux EMF and RPM's.
Voltage goes up as high as 20 volts. Available current
remains constant. The trick is to find the lowest
current lamp. Voltage of the bulb is irrelevant to
some degree. I use 12v bulbs because of the lower
wattage. To state that a Motoplat is a 6volt or 12volt
system is not important. It's output is AC from 1v to
about 20v depending on RPM's. If you put in a voltage
regulator it could be 6v or 12v but still the voltage
will be AC from 1volt to whatever the regulator limits
it to. The term 12v system or 6v system refers more to
the battery requirements. The battery acts as a
rectifier for AC voltage turning into DC. A voltage
regulator is needed so it doesn't overcharge and go
booooommmmmm.
Vance- So, assumng you need to add a battery, you need a regulator. This seems promising because it also includes a simple wiring diagram sadly lacking with most regulators seen on ebay or amazon. 6v regulatorI think one positive are the new more powerful and lighter batteries available today. Also, the Austarlian wiring diagrams include diagrams for using a battery, so that should help? Just ignore the wiring for turn signals, etc. chuck b. |
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Post by ESR80PE on Nov 22, 2019 8:55:36 GMT
I am getting one of these 4.5" (same size as Preston Petty and 78-84 PE light units) inserts that take a H4 bulb. This is the replacement unit, not the whole chrome housing you see here
This is what it looks like
it has glass lens which is what i want. its made by Jute in Taiwan.
HS1 bulb is same as H4. HS1 is just a motorcycle spec and there's a tiny difference in the tag widths that's all. For all intents and purposes they can be considered interchangeable
I will then get a LED H4 bulb. Not fitting a battery but it will be 12v DC depending on what regulator/rectifier i use will determine if i need a capacitor or not.
There is stator mod article i can upload here that is applicable to all PE's but i need to find it. I know i have emailed it to various PE owners over the years.
I am not a fan of the Preston petty LED units. No dual beam so not legal for road use. I did find a similar dual beam LED insert last yr but its actually just a spot and flood. Again not proper high and low headlight beam. Also the H4 LED bulbs i am looking at will have more output than the LED sealed beams like the Preston Petty & similar ones
heres some shells i saw
yes there is if you are happy with halogen. Just search H6M globe/bulb or p15d-25-1 globe/bulb. 99% of the LED versions of this bulb will be cheap ebay china junk but there's some fine 35/35 Halogens that will plug straight into all PE headlights and run perfectly fine on AC. If you get this trail tech regulator, you can dial up the volts to 14.7-15v and the light will be very bright www.trailtech.net/accessories/electrical-accessories/7003-ac01
This is not entirely true. They will last much longer that even when run over 14 volts AC. I know this is the case at least with Phillips bulbs anyway.
I have been following this places You Tube channel. They have tested a tonne of LED headlight bulbs and weeded out the junk and only sells on their site what ones are good. So if you want to avoid the guesswork by trying out a cheap ebay $30 globe then have a look at what they have
The UFO enduro headlights i believe use a smaller insert than the PE's 4.5" Its something like 3.5-4" based on what i have seen so you probably stuck with that insert. I think they use common Bosch base BA20 globe/bulb though and if you search around you will fine 12V LED versions with that base
Also i have looked into Vespa/Piaggio headlight inserts. The older models used some small inserts in the 4-5" range and modern new style inserts are available that take H4 globes. Possibly in the 77 PE250 size too.
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Post by ESR80PE on Nov 22, 2019 11:41:54 GMT
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 23, 2019 4:19:07 GMT
I am getting one of these 4.5" (same size as Preston Petty and 78-84 PE light units) inserts that take a H4 bulb. This is the replacement unit, not the whole chrome housing. P/N 161065. will report back when i get it. it has glass lens which is what i want. its made by Jute in Taiwan. HS1 bulb is same as H4. HS1 is just a motorcycle spec and there's a tiny difference in the tag widths that's all. For all intents and purposes they can be considered interchangeable
I will then get a LED H4 bulb. Not fitting a battery but it will be 12v DC depending on what regulator/rectifier i use will determine if i need a capacitor or not. There is stator mod article i can upload here that is applicable to all PE's but i need to find it. I know i have emailed it to various PE owners over the years. I am not a fan of the Preston petty LED units. No dual beam so not legal for road use. I did find a similar dual beam LED insert last yr but its actually just a spot and flood. Again not proper high and low headlight beam. Also the H4 LED bulbs i am looking at will have more output than the LED sealed beams like the Preston Petty & similar ones yes there is if you are happy with halogen. Just search H6M globe/bulb or p15d-25-1 globe/bulb. 99% of the LED versions of this bulb will be cheap ebay china junk but there's some fine 35/35 Halogens that will plug straight into all PE headlights and run perfectly fine on AC. If you get this trail tech regulator, you can dial up the volts to 14.7-15v and the light will be very bright www.trailtech.net/accessories/electrical-accessories/7003-ac01
I have been following this places You Tube channel. They have tested a tonne of LED headlight bulbs and weeded out the junk and only sells on their site what ones are good. So if you want to avoid the guesswork by trying out a cheap ebay $30 globe then have a look at what they have GREAT INFO, LEITH! Thank you for sharing as always. It sounds like I will most likely go with a PE stock/repro assembly or a bare Preston Petty, and do my own LED bulb and reflector lens assembly in order to get a brighter setup. The UFO look great, and I was going to ask how well the yellow matches Suzuki OEM or DC Plastics Suzuki Yellow, but a smaller headlight is not really what I'm after. Too small and I'm afraid I'd melt the thing from a high output LED!!!
I may try one those regulators you recommended:
With that exposed adjustable trimpot, does this thing need to be kept out of harm's way as far as getting wet? I have been known to crash into deep mud bogs and in deep boulder filled creek crossings... as well as getting caught out in the rain.
If so, then perhaps they make one that is non-adjustable that I'll look into, or similar. Now... they must certainly make a nice waterproof modern rectifier, right? That is more my concern for running LED.
EDIT - instructions say specifically that it is a sealed trimpot, factory set to 13.8 volts, and must be resealed with silicone sealant etc after adjusting, or else internal damage may occur.
[/i][/div]
4.5" PAR36 for all 1978+ PE's and Preston Petty number plate/shells, this is also good to know. I will keep your link in mind there for the '77 PE250B as well, but if I recall, that has a removable non-sealed-beam type bulb as well, and I'm sure I can get a 9000 series or H8+ to fit into that with some rotary tool work and maybe a little minor fabrication. Or look into 4.75" PAR38 LED assemblies. As far as AC goes, yes I know, I used a halogen 9005 (?) modified a bit in my KDX, and it ran perfectly fine on AC, the filament does not care! It's the LED retrofit bulbs that are the ones to watch out for, as most do not work on AC. However I quickly realized that the limitations of my KDX (and all other dirtbikes stock) lighting was in fact the weak low output of the lighting coil... My KDX is now rewound for 85W of power, although I doubt I'll use that to it's full potential even with 4800 Lumens of LED power!
I REALLY prefer to go to LED, as I want the absolute MAXIMUM LUMENS that I can get out of my lighting coil's output... Night riding with a bright light is incredible. I have done tons of this on bicycle, mountain bike trails in Zaleski State Forest near where we ride 75 miles of National Forest dirtbike/ATV trails. Night riding with incredibly bright lights and thus excellent visibility is very unique and amazing. Despite the brightness, the whole night riding experience is very unique, as it makes a familiar (in daylight) trail feel very new and exciting and somewhat unfamiliar just due to the limited vision distance etc. Quite fun. I would always go out with my rechargeable. A nice bonus feature to have would be an expensive bicycle headlamp around your helmet, so that you get even more light, and you can see off to the side of the trail where your head turns, not just where your front wheel is pointed. I also would never go out on a dark night without a backup fully charged headlamp or clamp-on bicycle headlight, JUST IN CASE of some failure. A spare bulb would have you covered most of the time, but what if your lighting coil or regulator/rectifier failed? Or bike broke or ran out of gas...
My bicycle headlight is Light&Motion TAZ1500, 1500 Lumens, and is brighter and better focused than many dual headlight automobiles even, and brighter than motorcycle headlights that I have ran that were advertised at 3,000 lumens, so a good quality properly focused and accurately rated LED setup is above and beyond better than what most others claim.
So I am looking to get something around 2800-4800 Lumens for both of my current dirtbikes, and the upcoming PE175 purchase that I am hoping to make. Hopefully that bike works out, but his nephew has shown a bit more interest in working on rehabilitating this parts bike, so it may no longer be for sale... I will find another if that is so.
So an H6M fits into a PE250 headlight?! GREAT TO KNOW!
ALL FANTASTIC INFO AGAIN, THANK YOU LEITH!
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 23, 2019 4:32:52 GMT
And especially thanks for the Headlight Revolution website link and YouTube Channel, I will be checking that out shortly! The Cyclops Adventure Sports LED's I am very pleased with so far, as well as some of the ADV Monster bulbs, but always open to other good deals especially when shopping for potentially more obscure bulb size formats for dirtbike buckets.
headlightrevolution.com/
Also, thanks for mentioning capacitors...I had long since forgotten of battery delete capacitors since I had discovered small capacity 4 cell LiFePO4 batteries for my kickstart street bikes. A large uF (microfarad, or mfd) rated capacitor around 5,000uF will eliminate the flickering of the headlight at idle/low speeds, and also help give the ignition more constant power upon kickstarting, smoothing out the spikes and dips of the AC waveform with each revolution of the crankshaft rotor.
Trail Tech also sells a nice fancy regulator/rectifier version of the regulator you linked, Leith. $59.99 retail price:
And if you want High/Low beams for oncoming traffic on the trails or for road use, with an integrated kill switch even, for $29.99 USD retail, Trail Tech also offer this:
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Post by ESR80PE on Nov 23, 2019 7:15:55 GMT
Capacitors here
They also do a bracket
I also checked out some LED H4 globes at Headlight revolution and they have one, a maybe a few that will run on anything from 6v up too
H6M and P15D-25-1 are same globe. H6M is halogen and P15D-25-1 is incandescent
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Post by ESR80PE on Nov 23, 2019 8:04:11 GMT
A capacitor has absolutely no effect on the ignition and kick starting abilities on a PE. They use AC magneto ignition, not battery-coil ignition.
Its usually best to look at Lux if the manufacturer specifies that
These are supposed to be really good. I have been watching Headlight Revolutions comparison tests and these do well
they draw 28.3 watts at 13.5v so a PE running 2 coils, preferably rewound will easily run this
This one also runs on 6v so even if you have a 12v reg/rect and and stock coils not rewound and it does not pump out 12v until high in the rev range, it should still run it ok as they get max brightness from 6v upwards. If
this is a new version on pre-order which draws up to 41.5w but needs min 11 volts.
Headlight Revolution says these are good too
Obviously these are H4 so you need a H4 insert
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 25, 2019 0:44:30 GMT
Alright, sorry to confuse a capacitor in a street bike battery-delete kickstart-only scenario, with a dirtbike magneto ignition system! Yes on the Dyna-S electronic ignition upgrades/retrofits on street bikes, they simply won't run without a battery or at least a capacitor as a replacement... and the lights flicker substantially on a street bike at low rpm without a battery.
Let me know how you do with researching the whole reflector lens shell assemblies. Something that casts a really nicely focused beam with proper cutoff, in conjunction with an LED retrofit bulb in the 2800-4800 Lumens range, is really what I'm aiming for.
I hadn't considered going with DC Plastics reproduction headlight/nose surround number plate plastics new, but that is also THE OBVIOUS OPTION for me if buying this 83 PE175 missing lighting airbox and seat... Keep on up with the product recommendations Leith, you're really on a roll! THANKS!
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Post by ESR80PE on Dec 1, 2019 2:45:47 GMT
I think i have found a high quality modern made in Austria Hella headlight insert that takes a H4 globe. I am not 100% sure on the size yet. It looks like 4.5" 78-84 PE size but it might also be 77 PE250 size. Stay tuned.............
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Post by Chuck78 on Dec 1, 2019 5:38:34 GMT
Fantastic! Either size would be of great interest to me!
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