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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 4, 2019 15:45:45 GMT
Hi, my name is Chuck, from Ohio. I joined the PE Yahoo group a few years ago to gain more knowledge and insight on my interest in getting a vintage Suzuki PE Enduro. A year and a half or so ago I picked up a 1977 PE250B very well used and very abused basket case project not in riding condition, but with a title and a pile of spare engines and parts. At a later date I will post up some photos and other info on my progress, as I hope to tackle this over the winter since the bike is in my heated basement machine shop / workshop currently. Stay tuned!
Testing Flickr photo hosting on message boards:
Is this photo displaying correctly for everyone?
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 4, 2019 16:10:53 GMT
As far as mods go, I have a custom built set of Fox Factory Shox piggybacks assembled in some Fox snowmobile main shock cylinder bodies, to get adjustable threaded preload.
I also have 2 of the very sought-after almost direct bolt on 1978.5 RM250C2 aluminum swingarm (1978 RM400 as well, full model year run on 400 not RM250 - only 1978-1/2 on 250).
I also got the floating rear brake from a '78 RM400, so that I would have the better performing brake & also to not have to weld a brake stay mount onto the aluminum swingarm. I am fairly proficient at welding steel, but just learning TIG and aluminum.
the floating rear brake setup does not put a load on the swing arm and rear suspension under hard braking, as the normal brake setup does. The brake plate has an independent bearing that lets it rotate only as needed with the brakes today which is anchored to the frame instead of a swing arm. A standard brake will cause a bit of a shift in the suspension compression and ride height under harder braking.
I also acquired a ported 1977 PE250 cylinder, and sent it out to be overbored and a heavy duty fancy carbide embedded bore treatment for extended service life.
Also purchased a 1977-1978.0 RM250 head as it has something like 3cc's smaller chamber volume, for slightly higher compression.
1982 DR250 36mm forks up front will slide right into the original triples, and give longer travel to match the rear as well as an 80-82 PE250's travel.
Finding a larger diameter conventional fork than 36mm without going to way too much ride height was a challenge (especially if trying to stick with drum front brake for period correctness and also if I'm going to enter any vintage hare scrambles / enduros), and just about any other fork swap candidate would require custom steering stops on the triples or frame. I believe the 82-84 Full Floater PE175 38mm forks may share same bearing sizes (? double check), but they are again a bit taller ride height & longer travel, and also I believe I was told have different steering stops, and perhaps a different front axle diameter even(?).
So apparently the similar era Kawasaki 36mm forks have much thinner walls on the chrome stanchion tubes, making the Suzuki version forks significantly stronger than the Kawasaki versions. also a side note, Suzuki does not list a separate part number for one of the two fork slider bushings, but you can order the Kawasaki part number, Leith had given me this information, and also was the one who recommended the 82/83 or so DR250 forks as a nearly direct bolt-on upgrade to match my taller & longer travel rear shocks. The only difference is the DR had slightly wider triples I believe, so I may have to play with the front wheel spacing & spoke/rim dishing, or perhaps grind a little material off to fit the brake plate to the locking tabs on the fork.
In the future if I feel I need something more rigid &/or disc brake, I may swap on a spare 1995-2006 KDX200/220 43mm cartridge fork front end after re-valving, spring swap, & internally lowering 1.2". A DRZ250 43mm fully adjustable cartridge fork disc brake front end would be the ultimate upgrade & have the appropriate springs stock, but I have the KDX stuff here.
Also, a direct drop in front brake upgrade for the PE250 hubs/fork, per tips from Leith, is the rare and sought-after GN250 dual leading shoe front drum brake plate. These are difficult to find anywhere other than New Zealand or so I have found out. They were common there. Checking New Zealand salvage yards is a good source for them. I believe you can use some of the aluminum linkage parts off of a 1982 or 1984 RM front twin leading shoe brake (GN250 are all steel), but those RM brakes themselves are smaller diameter and don't fit the PE hubs anyway.
Those RM forks 82-84 ish with dual leading shoe or twin leading shoe are very tall anyway, 12"+ travel, & different steering stops of course.
I also have a full Power Dynamo ignition and lighting system to install in this bike.
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 4, 2019 16:13:01 GMT
One other thing, starting in 1978, the gearbox ratios were updated slightly, changing only one gear in the gearbox to give a more preferential gear spread, is that was one complaint with 1977 models.
The updated transmission gear ratios start with engine number 18666 if I recall correctly. 18666 should denote the first 1978 model engine.
And other mods discussed on the Yahoo group, there is an RM aftermarket billet clutch basket that can be slightly modified for use in a PE. I may look into this as well.
The 1977 also had slightly shorter suspension travel than the 78-79. As well as the only year to have beautiful aluminum tank. Not too many of these survive in mint condition, as obviously aluminum will dent whereas plastic does not! Although plastic tanks do sometimes get brittle or get cracked, but they are much more durable. I have two of the aluminum tanks for this bike, and looking for a nicer third tank, as both of mine are mildly dented. It would be nice to have one on the shelf undented.
The rest of the body work is slightly different for a 1977 also, the headlight and the number plate in particular. I'm not certain if there are many differences in the side covers, and probably not at all in the rear fender.
Honestly, I think the 1977 is one of the best looking vintage Enduro bikes ever made, with it's aluminum tank & classic round headlight, but I will definitely admit that the 1980-1982 PE250 engine is a bit nicer design, & they come stock with an even more stout swingarm, and an even more laid down shock angle. They utilize the same rods and pistons, but that is about it. Same stroke, but different crankshaft ends, different cases, different cylinder, different head gasket, different head.
Engine mounting points are slightly different widths so you cannot simply just drop the later engine into the earlier frame.
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Post by ESR80PE on Nov 4, 2019 21:44:55 GMT
175 Full floater steering bearings are different size to your PE. If you wanted to mess about with other triples, Marzocchis can be made to work. They came in 35mm (can be bored to 36mm) and 38mm and in single and double pinch bolt type depending on yr. You still have to sort out steering stops though.
Oh yeah i recently found out suzuki/KYB used 3 different wall thickness' on the 38mm forks too.
Sounds like a good project. Will be good to see pics eventually.
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Post by Chuck78 on Nov 18, 2019 3:02:50 GMT
This was my PE250B when I first brought it home:
EDIT - DARNIT, Photobucket! A blurred & obnoxiously watermarked version is showing up when I view from my desktop PC, although it's displaying okay via Android mobile device on desktop site version.
I'll have to move all of my online photos to another host at some point this winter...
Flickr hosted version:  77-PE250B by chuck_lambert78, on Flickr l |
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Post by Chuck78 on Dec 21, 2019 21:43:09 GMT
Testing Flickr photo hosting for message board use, please let me know if you see a photo of my Fox Factory Shox w/Penske clicker remote reservoirs below:
Here are some custom Fox Factory Shox an old friend of mine and I got together out of 2 Fox Factory Shox mismatched parts shocks and some Fox snowmobile shock bodies, with Penske adjustable damping clicker remote reservoirs in place of the original Fox reservoirs. Fox Factory Shox shafts, pistons, valving, jets, sealheads, springs, and eyes. Custom threaded preload setup via the Fox snowmobile shock bodies and some misc. pieces that Kenny put together for me.
I've since found another 2 lonesome Fox Factory Shox in pieces, same length bodies, plus a Fox snowmobile shock source for some stepped cam preload adjusters that work on the original Fox Factory Shox bodies that use the snapring grooves for the upper spring collar. Not exactly easily adjustable the way they were set up from the factory, but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for more of these snow sled shocks with the same main cylinders as the Fox Factory Shox piggyback versions, as some of them have the nice alloy step cam preload adjustable upper spring perches... I'm a bit of a vintage Fox Shox snob, with at least 6 pairs of the piggyback Fox Factory Shox (mostly street versions for Suzuki GS and Kawasaki KZ), one emulsion version of those, and one in parts plus these complete remote reservoir versions. Plus a few pairs of Fox Street Shox (same as Fox Gas Shox for dirt machines, but the street versions were later and all had the stepped preload cams)
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Dec 22, 2019 0:54:32 GMT
photos look good Chuck.
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jamesp
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Sydney, Australia
Posts: 8
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Post by jamesp on Dec 28, 2019 6:08:52 GMT
Chuck,
I see your bike came with the original tail light intact. Mine didn't and this was one of the hardest parts to find. Now, about 15 years later, they are even thinner on the ground...along with a lot more of the bike's unique or limited-model-use parts.
Is there anything missing from the bike which is difficult to find?
Regards,
James
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Post by Chuck78 on Dec 28, 2019 16:08:47 GMT
It took me a long time to locate a front sprocket guard, those are scarce! I may machine a replica out of billet aluminum to run, just to preserve the scarce original.
Fork tubes were shot, but used 78-82 forks are plentiful. I decided to upgrade the travel and ride height by using 82-83 DR250 forks. Rear brake panel cable housing lug broken, but I was able to find another without too much trouble, then decided to switch to an RM250C2 floating rear brake and RM250C2 alumimum swingarm.
The aluminum fuel tanks and speedometer cables are tough to find, superseded speedo cables are a bit too short.
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Post by ESR80PE on Dec 30, 2019 8:19:52 GMT
The tail light is way easier to find than you think. Ive picked up a couple pretty cheap. Yeah they are rusty and need to be re-chromed but that's easily done.. Always NOS lenses out there. You can get repros of the tail light on ebay too. The front number plate is hardest to find.
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jamesp
New Member
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 8
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Post by jamesp on Jan 12, 2020 10:31:24 GMT
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jamesp
New Member
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 8
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Post by jamesp on Jan 12, 2020 10:36:23 GMT
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. As you say, the lenses seem easier to get.
. Also, the assembly seems to be the single-globe version.