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Clutch
Sept 19, 2022 18:11:38 GMT
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Post by stevekingy on Sept 19, 2022 18:11:38 GMT
Hi I was wondering if anyone could advise me, I’m not sure if the clutch is slipping so I have changed the oil which I think has made a bit of a difference but am finding it hard when the engine is running to find neutral. As soon as I stall it I can find neutral and all the gears easily, can anyone advise if this is a clutch problem, thank you
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Clutch
Sept 20, 2022 12:51:13 GMT
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Post by Chuck78 on Sept 20, 2022 12:51:13 GMT
The first place I always suspect to cause trouble finding neutral while running, as well as less than desirable shifting traits, would be the steel clutch plates being slightly warped. Improper gear oil can also cause less than smooth shifting sluggishness as well, only a slight chance it could be something with your clutch adjustment, there's not much adjustment other than free play on these.
You would need to remove the clutch cover and clutch springs to access these and check them on a flat surface such as plate glass, with a feeler gauge set, to determine if they are warped beyond service limit specifications.
There are other ways to inspect for warpage without a flat surface, but in order to get a measurement on the warpage, you need a flat surface. You can put two plates together and spin them around opposite each other and see if there are any gaps, and then flip one 180°, so the opposite side is now mating with the other comments send them around to visually check for any gaps.
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Clutch
Sept 20, 2022 19:23:41 GMT
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Post by stevekingy on Sept 20, 2022 19:23:41 GMT
Thanks very much for your advice and I agree, this is the way I need to go a new clutch
Cheers Steve
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Clutch
Sept 21, 2022 23:12:10 GMT
Post by Admin on Sept 21, 2022 23:12:10 GMT
I'm a minority on this but I find using a Magura lever for the clutch has helped me with the clutch fully disengaging when pulled and if all else fails with your shifting problem, consider it. At worst, you will have a spare lever for the future.
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Clutch
Sept 27, 2022 16:26:34 GMT
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Post by stevekingy on Sept 27, 2022 16:26:34 GMT
Thank you for your suggestion I will try the levers and see how I get on Cheers Steve
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Clutch
Oct 2, 2022 11:36:51 GMT
Post by ESR80PE on Oct 2, 2022 11:36:51 GMT
If its dragging/grabbing. it will be warped plates or excessive notches in the basket where the plates are ment to slide. Excessive clutch slipping leads to heat which can effect the springs and also warp the plates. Usually requires both to be replaced. Service manuals usually give spring free length limit and also a measurement for allowable warpage in the plates. Oil is no great drama. People make too much of a fuss about it. its not hard. Used a motorcycle gear/clutch oil around 80w. Belray Gear saver is a good one. if you dont want to use that then you can just about use any 4 stroke motorcycle engine oil. Anything that you put in a 4 stroke dirt bike that has a wet clutch you can use in a PE/RS/RM/TS/DS. 4 strokes such as KTM, DR, WRF, TT, XR, XL, KLX. Any oil you would put in one of those will work fine. A wet clutch is a wet clutch and PE's or any 2 strokes for that matter don't use any different or special friction materials to what the 4 strokes use so if you have oil that works in a XR600, you can use that in the PE too.
Ok so your still not sure what oil is ok or not? Buy from a motorcycle shop. The people that work there should understand this basic a stuff and know what they are selling. The only oils that will make your clutch slip are car/truck oils that have friction modifiers in them. Motorcycle shops should not be selling those types of oils anyway, but there are a few exceptions. The main time you may find unsuitable oils for your PE or 2 stroke dirt bike is when the bike shop is selling oils specifically made for Harleys, Ducatis, Moto Guzzis, BMW's, older british bikes etc Any bikes that have dry clutches. The engine oils they sell for those are usually not suitable for wet clutches. The way to know if an oil is OK for a wet clutch is to look on the back of the bottle and read the label. If it says Jaso MA or Jaso MA2 that means you can use it in a wet clutch. If it does not say MA or MA2, its no good for a wet clutch, so put it back on the shelf. Just knowing that makes it very easy.<script src="moz-extension://30008d8e-b323-4258-8b16-bf9dfb331b3e/js/app.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
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Post by Admin on Oct 2, 2022 18:59:22 GMT
Nothing anyone commenting has been anything but correct. The issue is this as far as I can tell. OP was worried clutch may have been slipping, now has trouble finding neutral with the engine running. So you have to start with what problem are we trying to solve? A slipping clutch would be general abuse, worn fiber plates. A clutch that is hard to find neutral, sticking, might be bent metal plates or a notched hub. I chose to concentrate on the last problem, difficulty finding neutral with the engine running, not uncommon with our older bikes perhaps. My personal experience with this problem and trying to resolve it has had two real world proven solutions after all the other suggestions were tried. My friend Fabrice Canari has a fix for the 77' 250cc PE that involves drilling a hole in the lower clutch arm that helps to make the clutch pull more effective thus making for less clutch drag while the engine is running and more easily finding neutral. It does make for a somewhat physically harder clutch pull which is the downside. I found that using the Magura clutch lever has the same effect, it seems to allow for greater clutch disengagement and finding neutral more easily. I/we should all have made one other possible suggestion for the cause of this problem, a "bad" clutch cable! This also used to be one of the first suggestions whenever someone had this type of shifting/finding neutral problems. It has never been a problem that I found personally happen to me since I have always used Official Suzuki parts and not the type that many found on eBay that may not have been the best quality. The problem now is that it generally is difficult to find the best quality parts and a lot of people rely solely on eBay and such. If you can find an original Suzuki clutch cable, you should be good-to-go in my opinion. While I am talking about cables, let me add that cleaning and lubricating the clutch and brake cables on our bikes is one of the best ways to keep those parts working optimally. IF I HAD A CLUTCH ISSUE, I would start there first, checking the cable for issues and then cleaning and lubricating it frequently. I like tri-flo for lubrication or any lubricant that continues to flow easily in cold temperatures and this particular Motion Pro Cable Luber. Links are for example only, I'm not recommending you purchase from those sites. I agree with what everyone says about the causes of the different clutch issues, and very much with Chuck78 that you really need to check and identify bad parts before replacing them without cause, although that has happened to me when at the end of the rope and frustrated. That is why I suggested the Magura Clutch lever, that it works very well compared with some aftermarket levers I've tried, even those of good quality, they just don't have "the pull" that the Magura lever does. And I will add clutch cable maintenance which I neglected to add earlier. It seems as though it would not make much of an effect but it is a good place to start, doing simple, frequent cleaning and lubricating of your cable.... Sorry for the rant. Hopefully Steve will find a solution and if not, continue to keep us updated.
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Clutch
Oct 5, 2022 18:11:38 GMT
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Post by stevekingy on Oct 5, 2022 18:11:38 GMT
Thank you so much for all your information, I have purchased a different lever as the levers that were on it are short reach ones so with the oil change and the new lever I am hoping it will make it easier to find neutral. With all the information that you have all given this seems to be an issue, I will keep you posted. Thanks again for all your advice Cheers Steve
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Clutch
Oct 9, 2022 13:51:38 GMT
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Post by stevekingy on Oct 9, 2022 13:51:38 GMT
Hi All, well the change of the transmission oil MTL 15W-50 has made quite a bit of difference, not slipping and with the change of the clutch lever to a large one I can now find neutral with ease from 1st gear with two small clicks up I can now find neutral most of the time. I am now looking for any information on the replacement of the rear two back shocks as mine feel worn and centre to centre hold is measuring 350mm, looking at maybe going to 400mm to give it a little bit more height Thanks again for all your advice.
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Clutch
Oct 10, 2022 15:27:21 GMT
Post by Admin on Oct 10, 2022 15:27:21 GMT
Hi All, well the change of the transmission oil MTL 15W-50 has made quite a bit of difference, not slipping and with the change of the clutch lever to a large one I can now find neutral with ease from 1st gear with two small clicks up I can now find neutral most of the time. I am now looking for any information on the replacement of the rear two back shocks as mine feel worn and centre to centre hold is measuring 350mm, looking at maybe going to 400mm to give it a little bit more height Thanks again for all your advice. As to shocks, I love the original works performance air shocks on my 175, so I could easily recommend these Vintco Air Shocks which are copies and the size you are looking for, but I see they are out of stock not to mention pricey, but well worth it IMO. On my other PE I have "vintage" Öhlin remote reservoir shocks, rebuilt by Drew Smith of W.E.R. and they are also excellent if you can find a pair Öhlins. Since shocks are such an important part of our vintage bikes, it does pay to get the very best quality you can afford which implies shocks that are rebuildable. My shock tech has more difficulty finding some vintage parts now. So probably best to buy a currently produced shock for that reason.
Find a more complete list of shocks at my other site. Contact the suppliers to see what they have available. And wait for others to add their suggestions..
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